Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Welcome to the Rainmaker Fundraising Podcast, where we bring you tips and insights to help you raise more money for your organization and lead more effectively. I'm your host, Andrew Olson.
[00:00:14] Speaker A: Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. This is Andrew Olson here with the Rainmaker Fundraising Podcast. I am here today with David Duxbury. David, how you doing today, man?
[00:00:21] Speaker C: I am doing so well. Thanks for having me. Andrew.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: Man, it's awesome to finally get you on the show. I know we've been going back and forth about this for a good bit and I'm excited to dig into a number of different topics with you before we jump into that. So, David, you're a major gift officer at Hammer Residences in the Twin Cities.
How long you been in the industry?
[00:00:41] Speaker C: Well, if you count my entire time in higher education not doing fundraising, it'd be six plus years. If you count just fundraising work alone, I'm about to complete three.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: Okay, cool.
[00:00:54] Speaker C: Green.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: Yeah, no, but still, I mean, three to six years is still good experience and I think there's a lot of folks that'll be able to learn from some of the stuff that we're going to talk about.
Take a moment just to tell us a little bit more, you know, not, not about your fundraising career, but just who, who you are, a little bit more about you.
[00:01:11] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Well, first and foremost, I'm a husband to an amazing wife of five years. We have two little ones, two and a half years old and 15 months old or about to be three.
So they have an 18 month age gap. So at any point in time, I'm cleaning food off of the floor or playing with them or going outside as much as you can when it's not negative 20 here in Minnesota.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: I will just tell you, David, I have teenagers. You're still going to be cleaning food up off the floor even when your kids are older.
[00:01:39] Speaker C: Fair enough, fair enough.
But yeah, we love to get outside. We love to hike as, as much as we can. During the winter, we're outside on walks at the beach.
Not at the beach in the winter, but in the summer here in Minnesota.
Yeah, we, we love outside.
We love the Lord, we love to, to walk in community with other people who are like minded and.
Yeah, well, love to be involved in our community. And we love generosity. Our whole entire life has been marked by generosity. The home I'm sitting in, it was made possible with generosity. And so we try to kind of facilitate that as much as possible as a family.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: That's awesome. So I want to, I want to dig into that a little bit More.
Where does that passion for generosity come from?
Give me the backstory on that.
[00:02:29] Speaker C: Oh, man, I'll try not to monologue for. For too long.
So my whole life was marked by. By generosity.
Growing up, I grew up in a single parent household, a poverty threshold. My father tragically took his own life when I was 4. And that implemented a lot of brokenness in our family.
And so for years and years and years, that environment of brokenness and tragedy was kind of my story.
And thankfully, there were people in our church and our community who really saw me and invested in me. And so some things that come to mind, folks in our church would graciously take me out to eat every week.
The worship team graciously gave me instruments so I could help use my gifts for the church.
And then as I kind of went to young adulthood and as I was going on different trips or went to college, there were people who would just bless me immensely.
And so my entire experience as a child and then my entire experience becoming a young adult and then getting into college as a first generation college student, My education was subsidized by donor dollars. My travel was subsidized by donor dollars. So for my entire life, people invested in me generously. And I think that just kind of lit me up and said to say, well, I've been the recipient of generosity my whole life. I'd like to facilitate generosity in other people so I can impact, not me, but their generosity can impact the people that we serve. So that's where that comes from.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: That's an incredible story, man.
What a sort of like completion of a cycle, right? I mean, the trauma and the negative experiences that you had growing up and to be able to take that now and turn that into such amazing impact in the world, I think that's pretty cool.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: Well, thank you. It's the most fun I've ever had.
And it doesn't feel like work to me. There's lots of people in the nonprofit sector who are like. Or just slugging it out. I really don't feel like I'm slugging it out. Maybe there's, you have to work hard, but it's fun to facilitate generosity. It's the most fun.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's interesting to me because I definitely hear that sort of like, this is a slog. And even some people in the industry who are kind of like, probably considering whether or not they should leave the industry and whether it's right for them anymore, and there can be such a negative side of that. But then also I hear the Other side, what you're talking about, what others in the sector talk about, how impactful their conversations are, how much they love just sort of the ability to transform lives by putting generous givers together with important causes. So I think that's a great perspective. I'm curious. So you and I have talked a little bit about the idea of kind of empowering the next generation of fundraisers and developing professionals.
What does that even mean from your seat?
What does that look like for you?
[00:05:44] Speaker C: Oh, man. Well, it's really personal for me because I was that and I still consider myself very green, very new. I'm not going to pretend to be some seasoned veteran who's been doing the work for 30 years, but I was in that seat, kind of next generation. Hey, here's this advancement role, here's what you'd be responsible for. How does that sound? Oh my gosh, that sounds great.
But I didn't receive any sort of formal training.
Lots of non profits are kind of in the space of they don't have a lot of resources or time to invest in that next generation. When I say next generation, I don't mean like that. The next people who will be CEO or cdo, I'm really talking about who are the boots on the ground, fundraisers who are taking some of these positions between age, you know, 25 and 40, there's lots of positions available.
And so when I'm thinking of empowerment, I'm not necessarily thinking of who's going to have the next best title or who's taking the reins. It's really who, who's doing the day to day work, scheduling the visits, jumping on the phone, jumping on zoom, who's doing that and do they have what they need to do the work? Well, because as Dickerson Baker has kind of pointed out, that 18 to 24 month gap of somebody working and then resigning is really heavily weighted by the younger pool of nonprofit professionals. And so, and I was in that category. I was the person after 24 months saying, Do I want to do this long term? I'm feeling like I don't have support, there's not enough resources, I wasn't trained. Am I even good at this?
And so trying to put other organizations in a place where people like me who are new but had passion for the work can really feel empowered and feel confident about the work that they do.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: So I agree with everything you said. I do take issue with one thing.
I hear people all the time say organizations don't have the time or the money to do this. Well, I Reject that premise.
Right? We all have the same amount of hours.
And if you have the budget to hire someone, if you have the budget to buy a CRM, if you have the budget to buy a brand new whatever, and you're telling me you can't find five grand or three grand to say, you know what, we're going to get this person, you know, into this training program or we're gonna, like, be intentional about onboarding. So in that respect, I think as organizations, we need to do better. And, and we need to own the fact that, like, it's not okay to just bring somebody in, throw them in a chair and be like, hey, figure it out. You know, I mean, when I, when I went into the nonprofit sector in 2009, something like that, 2009, ish. Let's say my first day was really figure it out, right.
And I had to learn on the ground, and there was not a formal training process, none of that. Right now I had some great team members who would come alongside me and be like, this is not how we do this. You know, you're going to break this if you try it this way, you know, and, and some of that, but nothing real intentional. So I, I think, you know, my mind is fairly well set on that side that, like, particularly boards and leaders need to stop using that issue and that excuse as a crutch and be like, just be better at developing their people.
On the other side of it, though, I love everything you said. I'm curious. Like it used to be, I think the prevailing logic was, oh, the association of Fundraising Professionals or the state nonprofit association or whatever, they provide that.
Are you feeling like that's like those resources are still delivering value there, or do you think that it's time for something new to emerge to really kind of fill that gap?
[00:09:43] Speaker C: Oh, that's a wonderful question, and I appreciate you pointing that out. I should have used the language of organizations don't prioritize intentional or unintentional. The onus is on the orgs, not on, not on all their. There just doesn't happen to be resources. No. If you, if, if you can invest in various other levels of the organization, you can also do the same for training, which also helps people stay longer. It's interesting when you. In the people, they stay in, they stay in the organization longer. Kind of interesting how that works.
But, you know, to your point about the state, you know, nonprofit sort of resources, I think there's definitely still value that's provided the, the only qualm I have is that Every organization is vastly different. Fundraising for higher education is vastly different than health and human services is vastly different than animal safety or animal shelter. Vastly different. And I could go on and on.
So when I think of training or empowerment, yeah, those resources are good. It's helpful to be in network with other people who do the work of development and fundraising at the same time.
If I'm in a room full of fundraisers for higher ed, the conversations look so different than what I'm doing now with human services, because the, the, the donor pool is very different.
The people we serve at in a human services org is vastly different than alumni at a university.
And so training really, I think, has to be specific to the, the particular part of the sector that you're in, because it's, it's not like, you know, not every city in Minnesota is the same. Not every organization is the same. There's 2 million nonprofits, roughly, and they all have different use cases and different people that they serve in different donor pools. So what's good for. I'm going to keep beating that example to death.
What's good for higher ed might not be good for human services. So how do we get training that specifically highlights what fundraisers need to learn about their, their various different orgs?
[00:12:04] Speaker A: So, yeah, that makes sense. It's almost like, it's almost like there's, there's core principles that the entire industry should be aware of, and then there's, like you said, sort of the, the sector or the vertical. You know, is it higher ed, is it healthcare, is it human services, animal welfare? Some nuances there. And then it's probably also like the, and this is how we do it here. Right? Because I think every organization is different. You know, I, I've done a lot of work throughout my career in the, the, the homeless service space and in the, the food insecurity space or food security space.
And, you know, we, we jokingly say, like, you know, if, if you've seen one rescue mission, you've seen one rescue mission, because even though they all serve people who are experiencing homelessness, the way they do that in, well, St. Paul and Minneapolis, for example, is very different from how they do it in Albuquerque, New Mexico, because the needs are drastically different. Right.
And I think if you took a fundraiser out of one and dropped them in the other, they could do okay, but they're not going to be optimized in their work until they really kind of get, get that indoctrination, if you will, not in a negative way, but, you know, kind of in the how we do it here. And so I, I really feel like for an organization to do this well, they have to understand that, that training and development is kind of like a spectrum, right? It's, it's like if they, if someone doesn't have the understanding of the core principles of philanthropy, they're at a loss. If they don't understand your sector, they're at a loss. But if they have both of those and you never onboard them well, they're still going to be at a loss and not deliver the value that you think they should. And it's going to create all sorts of chaos. And at some point you're going to say, oh my goodness, did I hire the right person? And they're going to say, oh my goodness, what did I do coming to this organization. Right?
[00:13:50] Speaker C: 100%. Yep.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
Okay, let's, let's shift this a little bit. At one point we were talking, I think we were just chatting back and forth on LinkedIn about the idea of like, when we lead to lead from a place of humility and sort of a posture of gratitude versus like a top down, you know, I'm in charge kind of thing. Talk to me a little bit about kind of what you, why you think that's important and how you see that creating value in organizations.
[00:14:25] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah.
It really, this idea really started stirring in my heart when I started doing more visits with donors and I started to notice this. If I ever get a master's and go on to get a doctorate, it's going to be about humility as it pertains to generosity. And the reason for that is, anecdotally, I'd meet with a donor and they are the most gracious, humble, thankful people.
And I am telling you, there is like a linear association with the more grateful and humble someone is, the more they give. It's, it's like almost every time I've met with a donor who's really quiet, really humble, seeks to understand, unassuming, they give at rates just, it's, it's incredible.
And then inversely, the people who may be, oh, you know, I, I don't like that. And why would I ever do that? This is a silly opportunity.
I, I want the credit here. Is my name going to be in the annual report though? There, there's definitely a relationship with, the more someone is like that, actually, the less they give. And so I started to go, huh? Well, if these are the people who are investing in our mission, how ought we as fundraisers Reflect that. And so instead of being the. I closed a $100,000 gift, and I did this, and I traveled here and met with this executive.
What if we were also quiet and unassuming and humble? And what would that do to our organization where we're not trying to highlight the success for ourselves? We're trying to say, look at what the donor did. And then it's interesting because the really humble and really grateful donors are saying, look at what the organization is doing. And then it's just this constant flow of like, thank you for what you made possible. And they're like, thank you for the work that you do. We need you.
And so that. That's where that idea started. And I don't even think I answered your question, because I got so.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: No, no, it's okay. I. I'm glad you went where you did.
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So I. I 101,000% agree with everything you said.
And I also know that there is sort of this growing antagonism in our sector from some talking heads who.
Who have taken this position that sort of donors are terrible people, and they're wealthy because they abuse others and take advantage of. Of others. And capitalism is the bane of our existence. And we shouldn't celebrate donors, and we shouldn't have to thank them. We. We shouldn't have to write them thank you notes because own, oh, my gosh, we're wonderful. And they should just want to give, and we should just take their money. Like, that makes me want to throw up when I hear those conversations.
Square that with what you just said to me about how you guys approach philanthropy.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: Well, first and foremost, when I hear people say that, those voices tell me that they've actually never sat across from the table of somebody who's done that.
And so, to share an anecdote, I sat across the table from a former publicly traded company CEO. So for me, coming from Poverty Threshold, you know, no one knows my hometown's name. David. I'm sitting across the table with him. And through a lot of my childhood, my family sort of said the same sort of things. Oh, those, those people have a lot. Because they got lucky, or, oh, they probably like, stomped on somebody else to get ahead, or, oh, they, you know, any sort of reason to disqualify. Maybe the amount of hard work that they put in or the, the amount of time that they invested in building something. And so I'm sitting across from, from this person and he and his family, and I'm was just dumbfounded when we're at Starbucks and he was like, do you mind if I use my Starbucks app to like, get the points for this? And I was like, go right ahead, I don't care. And I left the meeting. I was like, what a normal person to say, Like, I would like to get points for, for this coffee? Because I, I said that. I was like, I, you know, this is on me, but if you have the app. And he's like, I actually would like to do that. And then they tell me all about how they had an unfinished basement for 40 years and how they just love their family and just like, he's wearing normal clothes. This guy is not that.
And so when, when I hear that, I go, wow, those people who say those sorts of things probably haven't sat across from the table from, from these folks.
And so when I, when I hear that sort of thing, instead of trying to just combat it and make it really noisy, I start to ask questions. Well, where did, where did you hear that those people might be evil or that they're stomping on other people?
Where did you hear that? Or, or why might you say that and then allow them the space to speak and then say, well, interesting. In my experience, the people who really invested their time and their energy and in building something, they're very humble and gracious and kind. I mean, there are always exceptions. I'm not going to just say everybody is great, but because these people who give at these levels, because they are quiet and unassuming and humble, what I wonder is, I wonder if these people who say all their evil and bad, I wonder if they don't even realize that there's probably people in their circle who operate that way and that they're actually characterizing their own friends or their own community or, or people that they went to school with or what have you. They're characterizing them badly and they don't even know it because they're quiet and unassuming.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, I share that perspective. I mean, I've known just because of the work in this industry. And I've worked for a publicly held Fortune 500. I've worked for a privately held billion dollar holding company. And so I've been around people with lots of capacity, right? And some of the things that I think are, you know, the stories that I tell when I'm confronted with that other perspective. Like, there was one gentleman, he's incredibly wealthy. The man owns two pairs of pants.
And I sat with him once and I said, you could like, buy the entire clothing store over there. Why do you only own two pairs of pants? And he laughed and he's like, I can only wear one at a time, right? I mean, like, it's, it's totally true. And that just shows you, like, wealthy people are not, like, other than the fact that they have more zeros in their bank account, many of them are incredibly humble, incredibly frugal, and just like you and me. I had another guy who, you know, I walked into his kitchen, he asked me to get something out of his pantry. I opened the pantry and there's like just rows of canned peas and corn.
And so I said, like, you could eat anything you want. Like, you could have, you could have wagyu ribeye every night. And he said, I got wealthy and this is how I stay wealthy. So if we want to have money to do these other things, if we want to be able to give, you know, generously over here, my job is to not waste it, right?
And I thought that was just fascinating. You know, I'm thinking of this other gentleman who's a, he's a second generation business owner, took a business over from his father. It was like a $5 million business. He grew to like a 40 or a $50 million business. You know, so he's, yes, he quote, unquote, inherited wealth, but he's radically grown. The, the assets that his, that his family entrusted to him. And now he gives incredibly generously all over the country. And when I sit with him, you know, we go to dinner or something, it's an unsweet iced tea and a burger, right? At like, not, maybe not the cheapest place in town. But you can tell, like, this is not someone who goes and spends tons of money on sort of the trappings of wealth, right? So I, I feel like there's sort of this like, TV characterization of what wealthy people are. If, you know, if you watch succession or billions or something like that, and you're like, yeah, it's those people. Those are not the people that are giving generously across the country. And, and I just feel like so often there's this sort of like we, we paint with this broad stroke of what it means to engage high net worth donors. And, and it sounds like you and I are in alignment on this. Like they're just people too, and they give incredibly generously. And the other thing that I find is like many of them still have very similar fears and concerns that we have. Like, are my kids going to grow up to be decent human beings? Am I going to leave, you know, a legacy in this world? Not my name legacy, but what am I, what's the impact I'm making on this planet and, and for eternity? And, and like I don't want to mess it up. Right. And I find that like so often they don't have people who talk to them about that because everyone's either intimidated by them or, or afraid to approach that conversation. I think a great fundraiser can really open those doors and, and create an opportunity to have some of those authentic conversations. Do you, do you find that that's true with the folks that you talk to?
[00:24:20] Speaker C: 100% unanimously?
The, the more that I've, I've, I want to be bold and at the same time humble and so asking an uncomfortable question like, you know, what, what drew you to the, the work that you did or that you do?
What about that? I just talked to somebody yesterday, I was like, what, what drew you to doing real estate development? And he was just like, well like I, I like to build things and I like to have people, you know, I, I want to have people have a home and so I want to help with that process. And he made a great deal of, of wealth along the way and he gives generously and he's involved in his community.
And so yes, my experience with, with these donors and with just generous folks who even invested in my own life personally has been that it's been very normal. And you know, hey, I'm concerned how we're gonna, how, how my, my college age student, how they're going to do over the next three or four years. They're, they're going to a school a thousand miles away. I don't know how I feel about that. I miss them.
And you. What's really fun about the work that we do is that you get to really kind of be a light and a listening ear for whatever those concerns are. My, my children are in college and I don't know how I feel about that. I miss them.
You know, I, I'm worried about our community. I'M worried about the city, I'm worried about how we're going to address these issues.
And you go, wow, you sound a whole lot like me and my family at the dinner table or you sound like my neighbors. This is just normal. You are a normal person and you just happen to your point, have more zeros in your bank account.
And so what a privilege to be able to have really candid conversations about those concerns, whether it pertains to the organization or not is a lot of fun and it's very meaningful.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: Yeah. So, okay, you just also said something else that I want to pick at. You said, you know, those conversations, whether or not it pertains to the organization. And I think that that kind of pulls another thread that we've talked about, which is the idea of like being donor centric. Right. And I think there's also sort of this underlying shifting in the landscape of, of organizations and talking heads saying, well, we shouldn't be donor centric anymore.
We should focus on other things.
I think that donor centricity is important and it's not the idea of like saying, oh, the donor is everything, they must be glorified on high. But it really is the idea of like understanding who you're talking to and putting things in a context that makes them feel good about the engagement. But I also think that a lot of fundraisers, especially younger fundraisers, are kind of afraid to even start those conversations. They don't really know how to give. Give us give, give our listeners some insight. Like, if you're walking into a first time donor meeting, what are some of the things that you might say or, or might do to, to kind of bring comfort to the entire room? And then how do you frame the conversation in a way that it is donor centered?
[00:27:35] Speaker C: Oh, wonderful question. I, I think it starts before you're even in the room.
What I've done as I, as I'm kind of still newer to my current org, I would jump on the phone and send emails and say, hey, I'm David. I'm new to the organization.
I'm reaching out specifically to ask to get to know you. I'd love to take you to coffee, to lunch.
I don't have any solicitations. I have no appeals, no updates. I just want to learn about you. And I was dumbfounded when people were just like, yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
And it just kind of took me by surprise, like, why people are just ready to meet for me to get to know them.
So I think that kind of took a lot of the, the tension out of it when I led with, I don't have any appeals. This is not a bait and switch. It's not a, let's grab coffee so then I can ask you for a million dollars.
This is, I'm telling you, I'm not soliciting today.
And if I do and then I'm breaching my word and then you have no reason to trust me after.
So it starts there and then in that get to know you meeting or even if it's a meeting pertaining to a particular opportunity or a campaign or what have you.
One thing that I've found to be useful is saying, you know, Mr. Donor, I, I can talk about the organization all day long. That's my job. I'm only in front of you today.
How are you doing? Tell me about last time we met. You talked about your kids being in college. How is that going for them?
Your car was in the shop. Or, you know, whatever might be relevant to them in that moment gives them a chance to either address it and say, well, this is how I'm feeling, or no, I don't want to talk about that. Let's talk about the needs of the organization instead.
Every time you ask an open ended question or you're kind of reciting what they told you last time, that's relevancy or relevance. I don't know if I used grammar right there. But the more relevant you can be to the donor, I think that's what donor centric communication is. It's not so much praising the donor and saying you're the best thing since sliced bread.
It's more, how can I provide value to you today we only have an hour together. We can talk about the organization, sure.
But I want to be valuable to you. What do you think's important for me to know?
And that's opened up a lot of really fun conversations and it's also opened up the opportunity for one. Donor was seriously like, he was like, David, I like to fill in the gaps. And I was like, tell me more about that. He was like, I don't really like impact stories.
I don't really, I don't really like some of the. I think he used the word fluffy. He was like, I don't like the fluffy stuff. He was like, if you just tell me for a particular opportunity or campaign where there's a gap, I want to fill it. So he's seriously like, we are at X dollar amount and we need Y dollar amount to meet this opportunity or, you know, fulfill this campaign or whatever. And he's like, I want to fill in the gap. That's all I want to do.
And so now when I'm communicating with him, it's not so much story, story, story. I'm really just like, do you want to hear about the gaps that there are?
Yeah, that's donor centric, because he doesn't care to hear about all of the other things.
[00:30:59] Speaker A: So I love that. And it reminds me, like, the real crux of that is, like, you're just listening and giving them what they asked for, right?
Like, do you know Roy Jones by any chance? He runs an organization called FIT Fundraising.
[00:31:17] Speaker C: I've heard of fundraising, but I have not heard of Roy.
[00:31:20] Speaker A: Roy's a longtime friend of mine. He actually helped launch this podcast. This exists because he and I were partnering on it at the time.
Anyway, Roy was at Mercy Ships, and he told me this story that they have this one donor who has given Mercy Ships millions of dollars, maybe tens of millions. I don't remember the exact number, but it's massive. And he said. The guy said to me, don't call me, don't ask to visit. Don't send me a bunch of crap, but if you need something, just text and I'll make it happen.
And. And it's like one of those things where a lot of CEOs would probably be like, no, no, that can't be true. Like, we have to get a meeting. We have to follow these seven rules of fundraising, blah, blah, blah. And Roy's like, nope, I texted him, I told him what we needed, and he sent us, like, $4 million. Like, and I'm probably off on the number, but it's something like that, right?
And I think, again, it's like, understand the donor, this guy, really busy land developer or something. I know some, like, always on the road, never home, never available, doesn't want to waste time, but super passionate about the cause. And he's like, if you just tell me and give me what I need, I'll fix it. Right? And I think that's what we oftentimes get wrong in. In these conversations. We try to put it in the context of, like, what we think is right, what we think they need to know, when. If you just listen and follow along, you win, you know?
[00:32:42] Speaker C: And that's what a lot of people miss, because for better or worse, a lot of people in the. In the sector are very relational, extroverted people.
And so we're like, we want a relationship with you. And it's like, to this donor that I met with, to his Point he's like, yeah, sure, like, you know, send me the mailers and stuff, but like, what I care about is this. And so, hey, I have to respond to that if I want a steward relationship with you. Well, even though I would like it to be, let's get a cup of coffee every several months or let's have a meeting at your home or whatever, that, that might be my ideal situation for him. His ideal situation is, yeah, like we can meet however, I don't care, just tell me, tell me how I can fill in the gaps.
And when you honor their requests, it turns out they like that and it builds trust and then relationship actually goes deeper than it would have had you tried to force it in what you thought was the right way of going about it.
[00:33:41] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I'm reminded of another story. I was in a mastermind group once with high net worth philanthropists, their financial planners and development officers. It was really interesting engagement and one gentleman, a philanthropist, said that this one charity in his town had worked for like six months or something to get a meeting with him. And so he met with them and they proposed. They were like, you know, we know that you'll be perfect for this program and we want you to do this. And he looked across the table at him and he said, that doesn't excite me at all. Like that number doesn't even get me out of bet.
I want to do something bold. And so he, he actually said to them, come back to me with a proposal for 10 times what you just asked.
And then they never talked to him again because it didn't fit the box that they lived in.
And so they like the preference for them that there was this, like this fright in their work that no, we were going to ask you to be a mid level giver at fifteen hundred dollars. And he's like, the smallest check I'm going to write you is 15 grand. So give me a proposal. And, and it scared him. Right? And it was like they, there was, for them, it was more important to fit their mantra and their mentality than to be like, hey, this, this guy really wants to do this. He, he just told us what a win is for him and they just didn't do it. Right. And I just heard something else. I saw something on LinkedIn this morning with a woman who was a donor who said, I told this charity I was all in. I told them to send me an invoice or a proposal or whatever. And I'm chasing them now because they're not following up on it.
[00:35:25] Speaker C: With me.
[00:35:26] Speaker A: And it's like, if we just do the simple things well, and we. We again, we listen and we follow the script and, okay, if a donor wants this, as long as it's legal and ethical and aligns with our mission, why not give it to them?
[00:35:41] Speaker C: Right?
[00:35:43] Speaker A: Crazy.
You mentioned a second ago the idea of, like, stewardship.
I think a lot of people are like, oh, stewardship. That's a timely acknowledgment letter, and it's a handwritten note, and it's a call once a quarter.
Is that what it should be?
[00:36:00] Speaker C: It should be whatever is going to honor the relationship the most.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Talk about that more.
[00:36:06] Speaker C: I sat across the table at breakfast from a donor.
He. I called him numerous times, emailed him. Or no, we didn't have his email. So I sent him maybe a couple handwritten cards and he emailed me back.
So I was like, yeah, I have his email. This is great. And he said, I'll have breakfast with you. And I said, great. And we met.
And he was like, david, love your organization.
Love, love what you do.
I'm going to keep giving.
He's like, but he was like, please don't spend any more time on me. He's like, I'm not going to increase my giving.
This was my situation.
If I hear from you via phone once a year, great.
And I said, okay.
And so now he told me what he wanted to honor the relationship. So in my brain, yeah, stewardship is the thanks, Mr. Donor for the gift, and I'm going to write you another handwritten card, and then I'm going to, you know, send something meaningful for Thanksgiving to express gratitude. He expressed to me that he does not want that.
And so stewardship might look different for him than it does somebody else.
To. To kind of on the inverse, there was a donor that really wanted to get in front of for a long time, for several months, called handwritten cards.
And for him that several times of, like, trying to get a hold of him, that pursuit, for lack of a better term, was really meaningful to him. He was like, wow. I. He was like, I'm very busy. I have lots of things to do. I'm solicited every day is the word that he said. I said, oh, my heavens, I'm sorry.
Not by our organization, but by the organization I'm sure he supports.
And he was like, thank you for following up so much. That really meant a lot.
We jumped on the phone, he clarified kind of where he was at, and now we have a good plan moving forward.
And so stewardship for him really looks like, am I consistently updating him on what's going on, how his gift is being stewarded?
I'm a huge advocate for sharing the impact of a gift. If somebody gives a very meaningful gift to them, notice I say to them, not to me.
A hundred dollars might be meaningful to a donor to say, hey, you gave to the Quality of Life fund. And because of your generosity, four ladies from this home were able to go to Shania Twain concert and have the time of their life.
So it's like. And then there's this picture of these four ladies who are served by our org at the Shania Twin concert with matching T shirts. And we're able to say, Mr. And Mrs. Donor, thank you for your gift. Whether that was a hundred dollars or fifty thousand doesn't matter.
Stewardship to them was like, you made this possible. Thank you. And that lit a lot of people up and that was a lot of fun.
And so I, I, I'm being super ambiguous, kind of on purpose because stewardship looks awfully different with every donor. And if there's a major gifts officer who's listening to this, I'm kind of like even edifying my own work.
You know, if you have a portfolio of 150 or so people, if you're taking good notes, you should have a pretty good idea on how you can steward each of those donors.
You can have a lot of fun with it too.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it makes total sense. All right, so we've got time for one more question before I let you go today.
And this one, I kind of put you on the spot here.
Tell us a story of the most meaningful donor conversation you've ever had.
[00:39:58] Speaker C: Most meaningful donor conversation.
Oh, wow. There's a lot.
I think most meaningful for me was actually a really.
What could have been a really bad experience, One that really marked me.
It was in a previous role. And I called a donor and I said, hi, I'm David at ABC Organization.
And he like grunted on the phone and said, ugh, you better make this fast. And he like, he was, you could tell he was just mad just hearing where I was calling from.
I said, I'm calling you today with no solicitations. I just wanted to get your feedback with three questions.
And he was like, ah, whatever. Like just really mad.
And he talked to me for 90 minutes. He talked to me for 90 minutes.
And it was the most mind blowing conversation because it started just really like defensive. Make it fast. I don't want. Whatever, I don't care.
And after those 90 minutes, I just asked the questions. I marked down his feedback. I told him what we were going to do with his feedback.
And at the one of the last things he said, he was like, david, thank you for calling me today.
I was convinced I would never give to your organization ever again because of ABC and xyz, but because you asked me those questions today, I'm more inclined to give. Like, let's stay in touch.
And I hung up the phone and I was like, it just blew my mind that it went from really defensive and angry to.
It just opened up his heart to. To really plug into. I mean, he was clearly mad. Why are you mad? Where were you disappointed? Where did you get that lack of communication? Or where was their bad stewardship?
And for him to kind of come full circle and then give me the breadcrumbs on, like, here's how you can move forward with me so that I might be more inclined to give was like, this really turned a lot of things around in my head. Like, this isn't what I expected.
And it turns out that what was valuable for him was giving his feedback because he had a lot of feedback.
[00:42:31] Speaker B: Yeah, sounds like it's worth the feedback.
[00:42:34] Speaker C: So that was the most meaningful.
That, like, really kind of marked me.
[00:42:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:41] Speaker C: And it didn't result in a gift. It didn't result in any crazy anything. It was like, oh, that's how we need to go about our work is providing value to people and extending that. We care about their input and we care about how they choose or choose not to invest in our organization.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And at the end of the day, it's about the relationship. Right.
That's awesome, man. This has been a really fun conversation. Thank you for coming on the show. How do people reach you if they want to connect with you?
[00:43:08] Speaker C: Oh, LinkedIn. David Duxbury. There's a handful of us. David Duxbury's on LinkedIn, but LinkedIn primary method would love to connect with people in comments, DMs, anything and everything.
[00:43:22] Speaker A: Awesome. Thanks again, man.
[00:43:23] Speaker C: Yep. Thanks so much, Andrew.
[00:43:24] Speaker B: Have you read My Amazon Number One Best Selling Book, 101 Biggest Mistakes Nonprofits make and how you can avoid them yet?
It's the book that I wrote with expertise from over 20 nonprofit leaders and their 300 years of combined experience.
You can download it for free today. Just visit andrew olson.net and go to the free resources tab on my site.
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the Rainmaker fundraising podcast. I have two favors to ask before I let you go. First, if you enjoyed this episode, please rate us and review us on whatever podcast platform you use to listen to this show. It'll help us reach more people with the tips and insights that you find most valuable.
My second favor is a little bit.
[00:44:08] Speaker A: Of a favor to ask, but also.
[00:44:10] Speaker B: A little bit of a gift to you. I write a daily substack newsletter called the Leadership Growth Newsletter. It's free to you, and I write it to help people lead more effectively and in both life and at work. I'd love for you to click the link in the show notes and subscribe to that newsletter as well. Until next time, friends. I hope you make it a great day.
