[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Welcome to the Rainmaker Fundraising Podcast, where we bring you tips and insights to help you raise more money for your organization and lead more effectively. I'm your host, Andrew Olson.
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. This is Andrew Olson with the Rainmaker Fundraising Podcast. I'm so excited to be here with Kevin L. Brown today. So Kevin is the author of the recently released Fundable and Findable, and he's also the founding partner and CEO of Mighty Ally. Kevin, welcome to the show.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Thanks, Andrew. Really appreciate you having me, man.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: I'm excited to dig into this. I shared this with you before we got on the air. I love the content that you post on LinkedIn. It resonates so much, and I think so many organizations need to hear what you're saying.
I'm digging your book right now.
Before we jump into the questions, take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself and your organization.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Sure, yeah. I mean, you'll read in the book. And we advise our clients to always lead with a problem or a challenge. And so I'm kind of a practitioner practicing what I preach here. And, you know, the reason our organization exists is because too many nonprofits are unseen, unheard, and underfunded. You know, no matter how you slice the data that, you know, so many of us just struggle with fundraising. Right. I think even in the states where foundations have a trillion dollars sitting in the bank, you know, 88% of us struggle on less than half a million dollars a year. And so that's why we exist. And then Mighty Ally is actually a nonprofit ourselves, a hybrid ourselves.
And we guide nonprofits to build brands that maximize funding. And so, yeah, we have a whole framework we can talk about in a minute. And then for me, personally, yeah, I've always been a brand builder, a marketer, a communicator, started in the private sector. And I think that kind of gets into why we even started Mighty Ally is these skills around communications and brand building and positioning, they're just not used as much in our space.
Whereas every private sector brand throughout history has always used advertising and some form of media to.
To make more money. So we wanted to bring that same discipline to this sector.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Awesome. Awesome. So here's the book, right? This is a substantial book, right?
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Yeah. The hard copy is even more substantial.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: There you go. You know, writing something like this is a significant undertaking. It's. This is not what I would call an airplane book where somebody can read it on a 45 minute flight.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: Right.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: It's in depth, it's detailed, has got a ton of value.
What prompted you to decide to write this?
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Yeah, good question. And yes, I hope it's a slow read, not because it's boring, but because you're really working through it.
Yeah. So you mentioned the LinkedIn content and I shared with you before we started recording that the LinkedIn content is part of our own nonprofit mission. And so we've always had a consulting practice where we work one on one with clients. We then we started a training model where we did these group workshops, but we still realized there are a lot of leaders around the world that couldn't access our consulting or training tools. And so we wanted to just start spreading it and scaling the expertise. It's kind of what we think of as democratizing these resources. So writing on LinkedIn was that effort of just get it out there. We want any leader anywhere to access it. And then once the LinkedIn content took off, I mean, I literally had never done social media. I was the old man in our office that, you know, accidentally live streamed on Instagram once because I didn't even know how to use it. So once I started writing on LinkedIn, you know, it, it took off from 2,000 followers to like 70,000 in two years. And, and I think that just showed there was a pent up demand for this expertise and this framework. And so I've always wanted to write a book. And I said, what the heck, let's do it. Let's, let's turn all this thinking and content into a book.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, everybody should check it out. Go get it on Amazon if you can. I'm going to link to some other resources in the show notes for you. But it's a fantastic read. I want with something that, that I was really interested in. You say in one of the chapters, complicated missions complicate fundraising.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: What do you mean by that and why do you think it happens?
[00:03:59] Speaker A: Yeah. So I've said this over and over again, if anyone's ever heard a talk that I've given. The number one complaint we hear from donors is that they just don't understand what you do. This is individual donors, high net worths, trusts and foundations, corporates. That's the number one challenge that plagues our fundraising. And we think sometimes as leaders, we have to be innovative and use all these buzzwords and have splashy campaigns. But the biggest thing that we see is just mission clarity. People just don't get it.
And so if you can't craft a concise, powerful mission statement, if you can't condense it down into a message that People understand you will just always have complicated fundraising. Right. So there's a great thought leader you probably know in our space, Jeff Brooks, and he has this idea that, you know, fundraising is not for the proud. And I talk about that in the book. And sometimes we think we just have to pack our missions with all sorts of really innovative language. But if you complicate it, then you'll complicate your fundraising as well.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
There's a story you tell in the book about the two nonprofit leaders who are pitching an institutional funder and how complicated the conversation is. And I felt like I was sitting at the table, table watching them implode. And it was.
It really bothered me to read the story, but I. I know that it happens everywhere.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Right.
You.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: You also talk about this concept of an organization's big idea in that context.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: Talk a little bit about what that means and how organizations get there.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So we actually borrowed that tool from. From a funder that we admire called Malago Foundation. Kevin Starr, their founder, is a great thought leader. He's on our board, and they have this tool called the Big Idea. And they think within 10 words, you should be able to demonstrate why your impact is different or better than everyone else. Reason being that a lot of us have the same missions. Right.
Whether you're building and running schools in Uganda, or maybe it's an after school program for disadvantaged youths in inner city America. Many of us sound the same when you just look at our missions. Therefore, we need something a little bit extra to demonstrate. Hey, what did we figure out? What's our secret sauce? And that's the. That's the idea behind the big idea, is that, you know, just like your restaurant, you know, your. Your favorite Italian restaurant, they just have that spaghetti sauce that's a little bit different than everyone else. You know, they still serve spaghetti or, or, you know, you know, lasagna, like everyone. But that secret sauce makes. Just makes it a little bit different. So if you can nail not only the mission clarity, but also what makes your impact and your model a little bit different than everyone else, man, you're. You're off to the races.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Awesome. Okay, next. Next question.
Um, we. We at our firm have done a lot of donor research over the last couple years, and then we also survey fundraisers. And one of the things that we found really interesting over the last couple years is, is that both donors and fundraisers have told us that the number one thing they want from organizational leadership is to understand vision. So I was really excited when, when I saw that you Have a chapter on, on selling your donors, on vision and not just focusing on the cause.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: What, what is it about vision that you find critical and, and talk a little bit about where leaders kind of go off course on this and how they can. Course. Correct.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that question, Andrew. I think you're even saying the same thing in just slightly different terms. Whereas like, you know, I said the number one thing they want to know is kind of what you do, but it's, it's intertwined with what you do and where you're going. Right. It's, it's really both. And that's why those two chapters in the books, it's, you know, it's, chapter one is, you know, really why you exist. Chapter two is all about the mission and what you do. And then chapter three is where you're going. And so yeah, to your point, it isn't just enough to talk about your mission. They do have to understand where you're going. Right. It's, it's, it's that idea of, you know, clarity getting you through the door. But then, but, but then that motivation, maybe closing the gift. And I don't know if you've seen it in your research, but yeah, it's a mission can, can make someone understand, but then a vision can make someone believe and make, make them want to join, Join the ride, join the community, be along, belong, see where it's going. Right. So I think that's why those two things go hand in hand and sadly we mess them up. If you even Google nonprofit mission statements, you'll get a bunch of vision statements. If you vision what makes a good nonprofit vision statement, you'll get a bunch of missions. Right. Even just a mission and a vision, sometimes we mess up. And so geez, if we can't get those two pieces down, then it's going to be really hard to communicate and raise money.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like when I Google those things. Have you ever gone to one of those like AI driven brand name aggregators that just throws words together? I feel like that's what you get half the time in these things.
Here's a thought on this. So when it comes to that vision, I think one of the really important things is how the leader delivers that message on a regular basis. What do you see? Organizations like those that are really good at this, what do they do different?
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Yep, totally. I, I, I, I've stolen this phrase because I, it's too good and I didn't make it up there. The idea is that leaders are repeaters and So I have a concept in the book saying that over communication is not micromanagement. And that means that your job as a leader is to not only establish the mission and the vision and the uniques and all those elements that, that it takes to build a brand, but it's also your job to repeat them to your team over and over again. And that's different than micromanagement. You know, micromanagement is telling how to do it. You know, over communication and repeating is more, this is why it matters and this is where we're going. And so I think that's what separates maybe good leaders from, from more mediocre leaders is that they're, they're not only clear on what they do, where they're going, how to get there, but they're also just constantly repeating it. Right. Staff meetings, memos, one on ones. Right. It's just everyone is hearing the same message over and over again.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I love that. It's that idea that like, as a leader, when you feel like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired of saying this, like people are probably just starting to get it right.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: Yep, yep. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And then that's, I think sometimes we are, we're tired as leaders. You know, we spend days figuring out a theory of change or we spend weeks with some consultant or an off site figuring out a strategy. And then we kind of just think, all right, we've, we've put it on the Google Drive or we've emailed it, everyone should get it. But no, I mean, the truth is, I hate to say it, even in this field where we all are really passionate, nobody is going to be as close to it or as passionate as you. And so you have to bring people along for the ride. I mean, no team member is going to stay up all night, you know, thinking about it the same way you do, right? That's your job is to, to instill that passion and that clarity.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: At Dickerson Baker, we're committed to helping you discover a better way to fundraise. From activating first time major gifts, to helping you recruit the best talent in the market. From building your direct mail program to, to launching and completing a successful capital campaign.
From designing a best in class digital fundraising campaign, to developing your institutional fundraising strategy, Dickerson Baker is here to help you level up your fundraising and mission impact.
Find us
[email protected] or contact me via LinkedIn.
So one of the things I've spent most of my career in, direct response fundraising. So direct mail, digital tv, those Sort of things.
And oftentimes I'll have conversations with clients and partners around brand investment.
Right?
And I'll hear things like, we're investing in brand to increase awareness.
And my challenge to them is always, to what end?
[00:11:27] Speaker A: Right?
[00:11:28] Speaker B: Because Coke can afford to invest in brand awareness, but the local community action organization is not going to move the needle enough on awareness for it to matter in the same way that a Coca Cola or a FedEx or an Amazon can.
[00:11:43] Speaker A: Right?
[00:11:43] Speaker B: So I love the concept that you, that you distilled of that. I think you said clear brands attract but compelling brands convert. Talk a little bit about that distinction and why organizations need to think differently about their brand investments.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think it is true that brand can help with impact. You know, brand can help with, you know, attracting government partners or, you know, securing more volunteers and making the work better. And, you know, and it's true that brand can help you attract better staff. Right. There are all these benefits of brand, but I think at the end of the day, the term you've used, Andrew, is investment. It is an investment and it should pay off in monetary returns. And, and I think that's where we sometimes forget that that brand is not just branding. And we're not just talking about your logo and we're not just talking about, you know, having some beautiful visuals for the sake of looking good and feeling good, right? This, this should be a tool to drive income, right?
So I think if we think of it as an investment, then what else is there to invest in to drive more money, right? You either invest in people, maybe to go do the fundraising for you, or you invest in the brand or maybe there's some infrastructure. But it is one of your best investments. I mean, it's, you know, it is part and parcel to raising money. And so I think if we look at it as, oh, let's just get a brother's freelancer's friend to do a logo and let's just prop up a crummy squarespace website, right? That's not making the investment in the brand. Therefore, what happens, right? Just like if we don't make proper investments in our portfolio, then we don't see the returns.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
What role do you think boards have in this entire conversation?
I think so many board members that I talk to say to me, I don't really know what the organization wants me to do, needs me to do. I don't know how I can help. With respect to this and what you've written in the book and your philosophy on this, where do boards come into play?
[00:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah. So this is a nuanced question and I have a slightly. I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion, but it's unscientific that I think some boards are great and they're involved and they might even have one of the founders or, you know, really active members who understand the mission and they, you know, they're in there, they're fighting alongside you day in and day out. And in that case, boards own the brand just as much as the, as the leadership team. You know, they're the ambassadors. Right. Whether they're there for their work or wisdom or wealth, the board is, you know, part of the team, which means they are part, you know, they are part of the brand. The, the other side of the coin that might be just a little bit different is that, you know, I think a lot of boards aren't as connected and, and can be dangerous when it comes to brand and fundraising. Right. If it's just one of those boards that only meets once every year or two, and it's kind of a rubber stamp type of board, in that case, I would stay, I would say kind of stay out of it. Let the leaders run the brand and let the leaders own the brand. So that's why it's a little bit of a complicated question is, you know, how good is your board? If they're good, if they're involved, then heck, yeah, they should be owning the brand. If they're distant and they're a little bit of a pain in the butt, then keep them out of the brand, keep them out of the fundraising, because there's nothing worse than a board coming in and just setting some brand or fundraising mandate without knowing the realities on the ground.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think we've probably both seen enough of that and seen it really hurt an organization's ability to generate revenue. That, that makes a lot of sense.
One of the other things that I love that you, you focus on in the book, you said something to the effect of like, anything is possible, but everything isn't.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: And, and I think that's, you know, to your point about the, you know, the staff member not being up all night, you know, learning your vision statement and distilling it. There are so many organizations that are, you know, one and two person shops.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: And even those that are larger never have enough staff to actually get everything done. Right.
Talk a little bit about your perspective on that. On that issue of everything being possible or anything being possible, but everything not.
And how does that in reality, how do you manage that process.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So maybe taking a step back a little bit, the framework that is in the book and the framework we use with our clients, it is brand, but it has these four parts. And we talk about being fundable and findable. It's a term that we love seeing take off, you know, we're just seeing it all over the place now, which people are talking about being fundable and findable, which is great. And being fundable to us, it is all that stuff we talked about a minute ago. It's the mission, it's the vision, it's the theory of change, but it's also your strategic plan. I think a lot of nonprofits roll their eyes at strategic plans. When I post about strap planning on LinkedIn, it just doesn't get enough attention. People just glazed by it. But yeah, to your question about anything being possible, but everything isn't, that comes from your strategic plan. That means you're setting priorities. That means you're taking your theory of change, you're taking your mission and your vision and you're breaking it down into bite size chunks and you're talking about who will get it done, how you'll get it done, when it will be done. And donors need to see that too. Maybe not your, your average individual giver online, maybe not even a high net worth, but trusts, foundations, corporate partners, governments, they want to see that you have a plan to pull it off.
So just like we talked about a minute ago, you set this big vision, you get people excited about it. A lot of people want to see the details. All right, so, so how are you going to get this done? To your point, Andrew, hey, you have two people, but yet you want, you say you're, you're going to end, end hunger in America, right? You know, what are the priorities? Like what are you focusing on first? So that's the idea of really taking your vision and breaking it down into realistic chunks and making sure you're not biting off more than you can chew.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. That makes a lot of sense. All right, I think I got two more questions and then we'll wrap up because I know you've got to jump to another meeting.
The first one is when you counsel other organizations on their investment strategy, not just in dollars, but in time and effort, between efforts that build the brand and engage versus those that, that directly generate revenue. How do you think about and advise organizations to make those decisions?
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. So interestingly, I, and this is where we start to have a. We start, we start to End our work and our expertise around the actual fundraising outreach versus the brand building. And so what we typically focus our clients on is the investment around, you know, how big of a team do you need to build your brand to have proper communications? You know, when it comes to all right now, how many fundraisers do you need, you know, what type of pipelines do you need to build, etc. That's where more of a traditional fundraising firm would be a better expert than us.
On that note though, Andrew, I think something I talk about in the book that's important is most nonprofit comms and brand teams are just chronically understaffed. So there's a nonprofit communications trends report and you can Google it and look it up and they do it annually and they talk about non the nonprofit average team size. And they say that it should be, you know, let's say you're a 500, 000 to 1 million dollar nonprofit. You should have, according to them, 1.8 full time staff. If you're a 1 to 2 million or 1 to 5 million dollar non profit, you should have two full time staff on comms. If you're above 5 million, you should have three full time staff on comms. If you're a 20 million non profit, you should have 4.2 full time staff members on comms. And so those numbers, if you're listening to them out there and you're thinking, oh geez, we're a $10 million nonprofit and we just have like one person doing fundraising. Comms, events, PR, volunteers, admin. Yeah, then you're, you're just not staffing appropriately. Right. So I think my biggest takeaway and the thing I preach is, you know, don't lump this stuff all together. It's fundraising and comms and brand are not the same person. It's not the same task. It's like the mistake in the private sector of, of having a VP of marketing and sales. You know, marketing's job is to drive the leads, build the brand, you know, raise, raise awareness. Sales's job is to close it, close it. You know, it's similar in our world, right? Comms and brand, you know, you're out there, you know, being fundable and findable, getting the word out, driving the leads, you know, maybe starting the conversation. And then fundraising's job is, is all around the relationships and the closing. So those are two typically different people in different roles and so trying to just lump them all together into one brave soul. Yeah. It leads to burnout. It leads to burnout and not the Proper investment.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. All right, final official question here.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Speak right now to the small shop founder, the CEO, the one comms person, you know, beyond go get the book or read it online.
If they say, you know, I believe in this philosophy, yeah, where do I start? Like, how do I, how do I kick this off?
[00:20:29] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Give us some thoughts on that.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: Yeah, there's that old proverb or parable, I forget which one that it says, you know, how do you eat an elephant? It's like one bite at a time.
And that's, that's really the truth here.
All brand building, all fundable, findable work is, it's really a, it's a science. You're experimenting, you're putting stuff out there, you're testing, you're learning. And you know, it really is a lot of experimentation and starting small and seeing what works. And so, you know, if you're looking for the, the step, the thing you do first, if you're a non profit leader, a two person shop, you need to do something. I would say focus on that mission clarity first.
I have a tool on LinkedIn. You can Google it, it's in the book, it's called the one sentence theory of change. And if you do nothing else, you should have that one sentence that explains, you know, why you exist, what you do, how you're doing it, you know, when it will be done, et cetera. And so there's a little formula you can use to just get one sentence really clear.
And I would start there. You know, if you want to be findable, there's also a tool you can google or look in the book. It's called the one sentence marketing strategy. Similarly, it's hey, we're, here's how we're unique, here's what channels we use, here's what we're trying to do in our comms. And honestly, if you get a one sentence theory of change and a one sentence marketing strategy, you're ahead of even bigger organizations that don't even have any of that stuff on paper. So I think that the point here is that a lot of this work is not that complicated. You just need to spend the time doing it. And so if it feels overwhelming, you know, please know that it's, it's, it's doable, it's digestible. Again, this is a discipline that's been proven for decades, if not centuries. Right. Some people say advertising is the world's oldest profession. Like this stuff has been proven. There are tools out there. Just spend the time to do it, just spend the time to do it.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: And I love that you've made so many of those tools accessible. I mean, the variety of different downloads and things that you share on LinkedIn are super valuable. So thank you for being here. Thanks for writing the book and for sharing your insights with us. How do people find you?
[00:22:27] Speaker A: Yeah, so the book
[email protected] so that's where you'll see all the formats.
We're actually adding new formats all the time. I just recorded the audiobook that's coming out very soon. Or actually by the time this airs it'll probably be out. So yeah, we're adding new book formats. And then find me on LinkedIn. Kevin L. Brown I also have a weekly newsletter that's free, that's on substack and then mightialy.org is our firm and yeah, check us out. Reach out. If you're listening to this, feel free to say hi. It's a community. You know, I think sometimes people listen to folks like you, Andrew, or folks like me and think that, oh, I can't contact them, but heck, yeah, you can. We're all in this together, right?
[00:23:05] Speaker B: For sure.
Absolutely man. Thanks for being here. I appreciate you making time your evening. Thank you.
[00:23:11] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Thank you, Andrew.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Have you read My Amazon Number One Best Selling Book, 101 Biggest Mistakes Nonprofits make and how you can avoid them yet?
It's the book that I wrote with expertise from over 20 nonprofit leaders and their 300 years of combined experience.
You can download it for free today. Just visit andrew olson.net and go to the free Resources tab on my site.
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the Rainmaker fundraising podcast. I have two favors to ask before I let you go. First, if you enjoyed this episode, please rate us and review us on whatever podcast platform you use to listen to this show. It'll help us reach more people with the tips and insights that you find most valuable. My second favor is a little bit.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Of a favor to ask, but also.
[00:23:58] Speaker B: A little bit of a gift to you. I write a daily substack newsletter called the Leadership Growth Newsletter. It's free to you and I write it to help people leave more effectively and in both life and at work. I'd love for you to click the link in the show notes and subscribe to that newsletter as well. Until next time, friends. I hope you make it a great day.
